Building a Great Team Culture with David Lovell of Simpli.fi
When you think about creating a great team culture, it's easy to think about team dinners, offsites, or company values. Those things have their place, but the everyday experience of being on a team matters so much more. As leaders, we set the tone for how people work together, how challenges are addressed, and what happens when the pressure is really on.
Years ago, I worked with my longtime friend David Lovell, who's now with Simpli.fi, in an environment where the culture wasn't great. We ended up creating our own little team culture because it wasn't necessarily coming from our leadership. We still showed up and did our jobs, but we didn't always love the environment we were working in. That experience is part of why we're both so passionate about creating teams where people feel respected, supported, and actually want to show up every day.
In this episode of The Real Work of Leadership, David and I are talking about what goes into building a great team culture, drawing on our years of experience leading revenue teams. We get into the importance of trust and candor, holding people accountable, having difficult conversations, and developing people so they can grow into their potential.
1:36 – What really creates a great team culture
3:06 – David’s definition of a great team culture and why individual motivations matter
5:12 – Understanding different personalities and what people need from their work environment
7:00 – The impact of toxic culture on revenue teams and their results
11:30 – The leader’s role in shaping team culture and behavior
15:46 – Managing negative personalities, including top-performing salespeople
18:21 – Building trust with a new team through communication, candor, and transparency
23:48 – Accountability, difficult conversations, and developing struggling team members
29:28 – The cost of avoiding tough feedback and the importance of leading with empathy
33:11 – Creating a culture that puts people and family first
35:06 – Elisa and David’s experiences with leaders who put revenue ahead of people
38:33 – Making recognition meaningful for your team and across departments
41:38 – Owning mistakes and helping team members learn from failure
44:51 – Developing talent and sponsoring women into leadership
51:12 – Team meetings worth keeping, meetings to eliminate, and favorite team rituals
Connect with David Lovell
David Lovell is the Vice President of Brand and Agency Partnerships at Simpli.fi, bringing more than 25 years of experience in media, advertising, and sales leadership. Throughout his career, he has led and developed revenue teams, with a focus on building positive team cultures, recognizing individual strengths, and helping people grow into leadership roles.
At Simpli.fi, David leads a growing team and brings a people-first approach to leadership that emphasizes communication, accountability, and professional development.
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Elisa Hawkins: Leadership theory is easy; leading actual people while you’re managing up, putting out fires, thinking strategically, and still trying to hit the number, is something else entirely. Hi, I’m Elisa Hawkins, and welcome to The Real Work of Leadership. We’re getting into the conversations, decisions, organizational dynamics, and real-life pressure that come with leading a team and being responsible for the results.
I had such an amazing time recording this episode, of The Real Work of Leadership. Today I sat down with my dear friend, and former colleague, David Lovell. David is the Vice President of Brand and Agency Partnerships at Simpli.fi and we had such a great time talking about how to create a great team culture. Because, let’s face it, it is up to us as leaders to create that great team culture, for not only our organizations, but also the teams that we lead. I hope you enjoy this conversation, as much as David and I had, making it, and recording it.
Hey everybody, welcome back to The Real Work of Leadership. I am so supremely excited about today's topic and guest. Today we're going to be talking about creating a great team culture, and my guest today is David Lovell, who I have known for a lot of years. And who we, have been, we had a really close working relationship, and we think about culture and leadership in much the same way. So when you think about great team culture, it's not just built through perks, slogans or a list of values on the wall. It is built through the everyday experience of being on the team, what leaders model, what behavior they reward, how decisions are made, how conflict is handled, and what happens when the pressure is really on. Especially in revenue. A great culture is not one without tension though. I mean, there's going to be hard conversations or high standards. It is one where people know what is expected, trust that issues will be addressed, and feel safe enough to tell the truth. So that is what we are going to dive into today. Welcome welcome welcome, David. Why don't you tell people a little bit about yourself?
David Lovell: Hey, Elisa. I’m so, so excited to be talking to you, and, and to be here, and thank you so much for having me. Yeah, so this is a topic that is, near and dear to my heart, as well. As you know. I've been with Simpli.fi, coming up, it'll be 10 years I think, in November. And before that, I worked in the SEO space for seven or eight years, and then before that, I worked with you in the Yellow Page business. I’ve been in media, literally since the, the late 90s, and learned a lot about what to do and, I’ve also learned a lot about what not to do. So 10 years strong here at Simpli.fi. I love the ad tech space and yeah, let's let's talk.
Elisa Hawkins: Love it. So David, when you think about a genuinely great team culture, what does that look, and feel like, for you?
David Lovell: It can be a lot of different things, you know? I tell people that work with me, that I hire, that are on my teams. I want them to wake up every morning Elisa, and want to do their job. I want people to wake up and be excited about working here and excited about, you know, what the potential for them is. And that can mean a lot of things, right? That can mean you know what their compensation looks like, how much money they can make. It can mean things like, what advancement in their career looks like. So, a good culture and a good environment in my eyes is, teamwork, positive energy, collaboration, and respect.
Elisa Hawkins: That's a big one isn’t it? Because that’s what, when I’m coaching leaders, or as a leader, as a leader previously, what I really focus and hone in on a lot, is the individuals themselves as much as the team itself, right? Because each individual takes feedback differently, right? Has different goals, and they want to hit their numbers for very specific reasons. They might be trying to buy a house, they might be trying to have a baby, they might be, you know, wanting to take a solo trip, whatever that looks like for them. And I really think it's important to understand that. So that it starts to create and build that great team culture. But I couldn't agree with you more. It's being happy to get up and represent every single day, and be happy to be a part of a team. It takes effort on part of leadership, in which to, develop that. What do you think people also misunderstand about culture? Because I think, people think of culture and like, this really broad stroke like “Hey we've got to have a company offsite, or a team dinner or whatever.” And those, of course, are part of it in terms of team building, but what are they misunderstand, about the culture itself?
David Lovell: Yeah. So first of all, you said something that was, you know, pretty profound, you're talking about personalities, right? And I've always said the hardest part of this job is managing personalities. I'll give you an example. Right now, I have, I'm about to hire my 11th person for a team that I'm rebuilding here at Simpli.fi. That's a lot of people for one person to have to manage, and a lot of different personalities, and I think that you really have to take into consideration that everybody's different. And that everybody reacts to things differently in order to get the best out of everybody, you have to understand how to deal with that specific personality. Now to answer your, the question that you actually asked, which was, what do people misunderstand about culture? That is a, really deep question, because in my eyes I think culture means something, different to different people.
Elisa Hawkins: Oh, spot on. You are exactly right.
David Lovell: You and I, Elisa. We're both extroverted people. You know, we have similar upbringings, we’re similar in, our regionally, we have similar personalities, but culture for you and I and what we want, could be different from somebody who might be a little bit more introverted, or might have other, you know, again we talk about personality, different personality traits. So I see this happen all the time, where I'm trying to build this energy and enthusiasm. But you know I've had counterparts that they don't roll like that. It's not top of mind for them, their top of mind is production, process, results. There's nothing wrong with that I think that's good but for me personally I think there's a there's a balance, right?
Elisa Hawkins: Yeah, because here’s the thing. It. And this, this podcast is predominantly speaking to sales leaders, or emerging sales leaders, right? And so there is the, the part of the business that it is systems, processes, production, meeting those monthly goals, quarterly goals, annual goals. It's absolutely part of it. But I think that something people miss with that culture is, you can't produce those type of results for people that don't want to show up for it. And they will not show up in a culture, that is, that, basically a toxic culture. David you and I years back worked in kind of a, little bit of a toxic culture situation. Now we still showed up because, we're hustlers so we needed to make that coin but, but we didn't necessarily love it did we? And we, especially when we were away from our families, when we travel with The Yellow Pages. So we created our own little team culture, I think.
David Lovell: We sure as hell did yeah.
Elisa Hawkins: But it wasn’t created by our, necessarily, our leadership. I think that that's something that, here what you're saying with the individuals because like, an introvert is like, that what they need from a culture, and from an environment is going to be different than an extrovert would. So I hear that, but I think that there's too heavy of an emphasis sometimes with some leaders, and that it's all about the number. Well, the people on your team are the ones producing that number.
David Lovell: The human element for sure.
Elisa Hawkins: The human element for it, yeah.
David Lovell: It’s funny you you just said a couple buzzwords that I've been thinking about lately a lot, and reading about. Number one is toxic leadership, and the other one it's like, the, the personality of the most successful sales people. I think, I'm, you know, I may have already discussed this, but it was like, people with ADHD, people with dyslexia, people that had unusual upbringings, tend to be some of the best sales people. And, and those people also tend to be, the people that are worst at doing paperwork and process. Like, I've been reading about this like dead serious, and I apply this to, some of the most successful people that have worked on my teams, and that I've seen it you know, in a sales environment. And by god it is true, in a lot of cases.
Elisa Hawkins: Yeah, and, I, like, that’s so interesting, what you just said about, people with adversity or dyslexia, or from, from a different, you know, a different childhood, and, and I would say, that like, not that those things are adverse, adversity but if you, if people have struggled with something in their lives. I found that those, typically make the best salespeople because, in sales you, you are going to be on the struggle bus at one point in your career, if not multiple points in your career, ‘cause not every month is going to go your way, not every quarter is going to go your way, right? And so being able to deal with challenges and adversity and, you know, going through it and getting on the other side, and learning from things, or developing the skill sets that you need to get you to, get you through the, the rough patches. I think what makes, ultimately, really top sales professionals. And a lot of times, best leaders, although not every top performer has the leadership skills needed would you agree?
David Lovell: Yeah absolutely. And I was just about to say, Elisa. I don't have an MBA, I've got a degree in history from Florida State University, right? Go Knolls –
Elisa Hawkins: Roll tide.
David Lovell: I know. It’s so interesting to see a lot of the, you know, not only, good sales people and sales leaders, of a lot of them have degrees that are just so odd. Like I'm in ad Tech. I have a degree in history, like, does that make any sense to you? I'm an executive for, a large ad tech company. This spot that we're in now, it's a, it's variable right? There's no direct path. You know? I try a lot to mentor, younger folks that are just getting into this business, and teach ‘em about my experiences, tell ‘em about how I got here, tell ‘em about what I did, tell ‘em about what I've seen, and it's, everybody's got a different path. And it's, it's so interesting, yeah.
Elisa Hawkins: It really is. And, you know, and that's one thing too, is that, and I've been talking a lot about this, especially when it comes to collaboration between teams, whether it be marketing and sales, sales and CS, product engineering and all of those things, is that it is shaped ultimately by the leader, right? Because the leader sets the tone, for that collaboration and that partnership, the leaders of those teams. So with that, how much of a team culture is shaped by the leader?
David Lovell: A lot.
Elisa Hawkins: I would say 100% of it. They're
David Lovell: Yeah, I wasn’t going to go that far but like –
Elisa Hawkins: A large majority of it.
David Lovell: –Yes.
Elisa Hawkins: I would say yeah.
David Lovell: A perfect example of that is what I'm doing right now, with Simpli.fi right? It's like, this is the most challenging time of my professional career based on, rebuilding something and, and finding the right people. And, you know, we've got a killer product, right? And with, finding the right people here. It's, I don't wanna, I don’t wanna say it's easy to sell our product, ‘cause it's not easy, but it's differentiated enough to where we can get people's attention a lot easier. So, the feedback that I get generally from my folks is like “David's this enthusiastic guy, he’s positive. And sometimes he’s too positive and too optimistic.” And my team, you know, they are a group of sledgehammers that are, super enthusiastic and supportive of each other, and it's a great thing to see. And when, when I get feedback like that, it makes, it makes me think of “Hey you know what man maybe you're doing your job right.” You know what? Maybe, you're doing your, your affecting these people in a positive manner, and they are happy to get up, and do this job on most days. You know, not every day. So I think the leadership of a team, specifically, I can only talk about mine, you know, in detail, but you are going to accept behavior by osmosis. And if you have somebody leading you who's negative, or is toxic, and I would encourage everybody that's listening to this to research toxic leadership traits, you're going to morph into that, you're going to become that. And, and, I see it constantly.
Elisa Hawkins: It’s true. The environment that you're in, bleeds in to your, to your own behavior, right? And I think that's the, the same true, is true of leaders. It's also the same, true of, if you have someone on your team, who is in that toxic space, and it starts infecting everybody and, on the, and it has to start at the top. But we also have to be very cognizant about anything that's affecting your team. And I will say this David, you helped me, back in the day, when I was going through, you and PJ and, and Scott helped me when I was going through a very, personally rough time in my life. And had it not been for y'all making me laugh, and being positive, like, I, that could have bled into my professional life. And, and sometimes it did, right? Because it was a tough space for me. But, had I not had y'all, like, you making me laugh and being positive and pushing me forward? Then, it would have been a much darker space, than what I was in. So I'm going to thank y'all for that. But I'm also going to say that that's also true of our teams, and as leaders like, we can be going through, like, especially, you know, in the tech space, not just ad tech, but tech in general, with all of the disruption that's happening right now, within the space. It can be challenging. Especially when, your customers are either brands or agencies, it's disrupted for them too. It's not just disruptive for ad tech, or tech in general, it's disrupted for everybody right now. So, I think that being able to lead in a positive way, and not get mired down in negativity is a super important trait for sure.
David Lovell: So what I think is funny about, I don’t know if funny’s the right word, but what I think is interesting about that, you mentioned, like, toxic individuals right? Like on a team. And I think, I think, you know, you're going to be, lucky, if you're ever on a sales team, that there's not an individual like that, right? So again, I think it goes back to understanding personality, right? And even if that person is, naturally, you know, negative or, or things of that nature, there's a reason why. Because they may misunderstand, what our goals are, they may not understand, what the marching orders are in there. Everybody is going to absorb information differently. You gotta adjust, to that. You have to be able to be a chameleon. On that same note, one of the tactics that I've found to be pretty successful, this is, this may sound a little weird, but it's isolation. Isolating that person from, maybe the rest of the team. And some people might hear that go “What the hell is he talking about.” Well, in a lot of cases, you know, negative energy it does, it breeds negative energy. But a lot of times negative people, especially in a sales environment, sometimes they're your best sellers. Attitude and effort go a long way. I always try to lead with attitude and effort, but you know, the effort part is really the most difficult part, but you can control that. You can't always control the attitude part, right? I mean, I could think of a million examples going back to the days where you and I were working side-by-side, to you know, a lot of negativity. And even though some of these people that I can think of at the top of my head, I think that guy was really bad, was one of our best sellers. Like, it's, it's, it's just the way it is. So from a leadership standpoint. Again, I think you got to be a chameleon. You have to have a lot of empathy, and you really more than anything, Elisa, you need to be patient.
Elisa Hawkins: Oh, thank you. Yes, you are 100% right about that. Patience is not only a virtue, it's a necessity in leadership. I completely agree with that. But with that too, like when you're addressing different things, or like if you have a particularly, you know, negative. But they're a top seller on the team, you got to create that trust with them, too. Just like you're individually creating trust. So how do you create trust quickly, with a team that you just inherited? Because we've all inherited teams, whether it be with the company that like, maybe, it's, we're, now leading a team that used to be our counterparts, or whether it be a brand new team. And a brand new company, and you’re inheriting a team. How do you create trust quickly there?
David Lovell: The two things that I can think of off the top of my head, which are very important are, communication and more importantly than that, candor. I think like, for me, specifically, I tell my people all the time, l this, I tell ‘em all the time, I tell them every day “Look, I'm going to be honest with you, and I'm not going to bullshit you. I’m just not going to. That’s just not who I am.” So, if you're, if you're answering questions, in a truthful manner. People can see through bullshit. And if you are honest, and if you answer questions, and you address them, that, that's going to lead to a positive outcome. If they feel like, they're being heard. I'll give you an example. Through what we're doing with Simpli.fi right now, and building this acquisition team out. I inherited a person that works here, who phenomenal sales guy, love this person. When I first met him, or talked to him, because I didn't know him, he worked in a different division from me, and we're relatively big company. He said “David, I just want someone to listen to me. I just want someone to, to, I can call, and ask questions, and I just want someone who is gonna be able to help me, when I need help.” And I said to him, and I’m not gonna say his name, if he listens to this, he’ll know who it is. I said “Man I’m here. I’m here.” And he was like “Really?” Like I don’t think he believed me at first. So there’s also a level of PTSD in all of us.
Elisa Hawkins: Yeah, It’s so true. And you know what some of the things, that I’ve, that I’ve I found too is, because I did this as a leader, and I also coach leaders to this as well, and new and emerging leaders. Is you know, there are so many things that every team member, and every team survey, the one thing that comes up in every single company I have ever been a part of, is transparency. And transparency means something different, I found, to different people. And if you tell people like, it especially when you get into executive leadership, as, as you and I have, but you are in, and I have been in, and well I, I am still in I guess, as CEO and founder of my company, is that there are some times that you cannot talk about certain things. You cannot. But if you're transparent with your team and said “I can't talk about that guys. Like, that is just not something I can talk about.” Or if you don't know the answer to something say “You know what, I don't know.” They are okay with that.
David Lovell: I actually love that. And, you know, in this position that I'm in, I still pitch, do I do a lot of pitching? Not like baseball, I do that too. But I mean like pitching. Ba dump ts –
Elisa Hawkins: I think we all know what you’re talking about.
David Lovell: In this one, you know, I that, that translates into prospects as well. And you know, in an ad tech environment, there can be a lot of technical stuff going on. And I always tell the audience, before I do our thing I'm like “Look I'm going to do my best to answer all your questions, but if you ask me something that I don't know, I'm going to tell you, I don't know the answer. And I'm going to table that and we'll, we'll figure it out for you.” But just be honest and transparent and, and it will take you a long way. And don't force it, don't force people to try to like you either.
Elisa Hawkins: And I love what you said about the sales person that said “I just need somebody to listen to me.” Because another thing that I always coach my team on, is like “Hey, tell me if you just want to vent. If you just need to like talk to me, and vent that's fine. If you are coming to me with a problem, tell me why it's a problem, how it's a problem, and what you're proposed solution is? Because I can't, I can't guarantee that that's going to be what we go with, or that we can even solve for it right now. But what I can do is listen, and hear you, and let's talk about it, and let's strategize.” And I think creating that open environment where people have the, know they have the ability to do that goes such a long way building trust.
David Lovell: I'll tell you what sales leadership Elisa, if its not 70% problem solving I don’t know what it is. It’s problem solving. And I, I and another thing I tell my people, and I tell new hires, and my peers, I say “Look there's a lot of things that I do really well, but there's a lot of stuff that I'm not great at.” Like I'm not. But I'm really good at problem solving, and I'm comfortable in that environment. If you want me to build you, like, strategy on a CTV campaign targeted at a households 18 and older? I'm probably not the best person in the world to do that. But if you're having a problem finding out how to do that, I'm your guy.
Elisa Hawkins: I'm your guy. We talked about positivity, energy. We talked about, maybe having some difficult people on the team, or maybe, actually it could be another, another leader in a, in the same environment, that could be a little bit difficult. Maybe your team could have challenge with, or maybe anybody would. So I really wanna talk about accountability, because we, we talked about that at the beginning of the call about accountability. And especially in a revenue environment where the pressure is on every single day, every single week, every single month, to bring in revenue and to close deals, right? And also too, the toxic nature of things. Or somebody, maybe, on the team is not pullin’ their weight, is not hitting their numbers, and then over, it’s not just that they didn’t hit numbers last week, it’s a marked thing that is happening over a course of months, right? Because I think what we don’t talk about in culture is, the accountability piece of it, and the cost of avoiding difficult conversations. ‘Cause I coach, and I talk a lot about this. Because some leaders, are, they will avoid tough feedback like, every chance they get. They do not wanna do it. They’re ok giving the ‘Atta Boy’s’ but they are not okay giving tough feedback. So lets talk about that. About, about what the cost of avoiding those is?
David Lovell: To me, you're, you know, you're going a path with this question of, there's a lot of things that we can address. And part of that is of this conversation is also development, right? Developing people. But you know as far as accountability is concerned, I feel strongly that you have to set the tone immediately with people, you got to set the tone immediately. I am not a fear-based leader. Like, I don’t want people, to be scared about their jobs. But what I do try to communicate is like, look we have we you know we're having fun, and for the most part, and everyone's feeling good and giving each other ‘Atta Boys’ but like, we have a job to do. We have to. We have to. We have the hardest job on the planet, well maybe not in the planet but in this industry, we get people to spend thousands, If not millions of dollars. That is hard, right? So something that I really like doing and, and to me this helps with accountability, is making results public. Meaning, sharing results with the team. So if if my A player is being an A player, and they're closing deals left or right, and my C player sees that, that's going to that's going to spark, you know, sense of urgency for them. And, you know you can tell people “Hey you know, you need to have a sense of urgency here, you’re way behind the 8 ball.” But if you show them, number one, you're going to eliminate a lot of the excuses of “Oh well you know my dog died.” Or “I can't get Salesforce right.” Or you know “Jimmy won't respond to my emails.” And then you know, show a little chart here, and you say, X person closed this many deals, this person closes this many deals. That is going to motivate people. And if you have the right people in the right seats, Elisa, they're already competitive to begin with. So you're, yeah, you're creating accountability and competition. And I love, I love friendly competition, I love it. Some people do not like it. They don't like it, and I love it. And I always say, like my approach. I'm you know a jovial, happy guy, but you know, I'm a big Tom Brady fan, too. And, and I'm like look, I'm like Tom Brady. And he's going to smile and shake your hand, but when he gets on the field, he wants to step on your neck. And, and that's sort of the approach, right? And going back to being accountable, like. Yeah, I think that's, that's the way I approach that. And avoiding difficult conversations, like, nobody wants to have a conversation with anybody about, you know, their livelihood, okay? And what you don't want to do is, lead with blame. Finger pointing. You wanna lead with “I am identifying where you are struggling, let me dig in and help you.” And I, can I give you an example?
Elisa Hawkins: Absolutely.
David Lovell: Being as this team is, is new that I've, building, or that we are building here at Simpli.fi. I started with, there was two people, we hired a group of three, we hire a group of two, we're on to our 11th person. In the second group we hired, which was in I think October, late November of last year, there was three people. And, one of these people was, I could tell the energy was low. And they weren't feeling right. This is about three or four months ago, they were not feeling right. So I, identified that was the case, made a conceited effort to get into, and dig into that person. It's what I call a project.
Elisa Hawkins: Mm hmm.
David Lovell: And I would even tell tell that person “You are my project right now, and after I'm done with you I'm moving on to this person, and this person.” You can make people your project, right? And, and teach them, and develop them and show them how to be successful. There is a blueprint for that, there's a blueprint for success. There's a blueprint for success at my company, there's a blueprint for success at your company. Follow the blueprint, don't overthink it, and that will breed, eventually, confidence and comfortability. And this person that I'm talking to you about right now, is about to win a Q3 contest that I put together of most new deals closed in the quarter.
Elisa Hawkins: That's amazing. That’s amazing. The difficult conversations you should be having, should not be when you’re having to part ways with somebody. That should not be the first difficult conversation. Inevitably as leaders, we’re always gonna hafta have those conversation, and as I coach leaders on, like if you get ever get used to that, regardless of if it’s a performance issue, whatever issue that is, if you ever get used to it you’re not, you’re no longer, you no longer need to be in leadership. Because that’s not ever something that’s easy to do. But, if you’re not having those frank, tough conversations, throughout, to help them develop, you are doing a disservice to your team member. Because they are not gonna develop. And you’re doing a disservice to your organization, because you’ve hired this person, you’ve spent a lot of money and resources in developing them, and ramping them. And so, if you’re not gonna have those conversations, then it’s gonna be a disservice to everyone. And, and you can have them, in a human way. In an empathetic way. Because I have, when I have, there was a specific seller, that I noticed. She was one of our top performers, but then all of the sudden she was, she would be up, and then she her numbers would crater. And then that would spike, then it would crater. So I had a conversation with her, and I’m like “You know, hey listen. I’m seeing this trend happening. Share with me what is going on?” Well come to find out, she had, before, I had, this was a new team that, that I had become the leader of, and what I found out is, she had had this major back surgery, she had been out on long term disability, and she had been back for a while, but she was starting to have back issues again. And she was afraid to share that, not just with me, but with the company in general, because she was afraid she would be let go. Because she had been out on disability. And I, I solved that problem –
David Lovell: Yeah. Wow.
Elisa Hawkins: – Real quickly. ‘Cause I said absolutely not. That is not, I said your health is the most important thing.
David Lovell: Isn’t that crazy. Like, what are we doin’? Like, just recently, a young woman who I've worked very close with for, I guess, what, 7 years now, when, she got promoted into a managerial role with me, underneath me, and very soon after, she, her and her husband got pregnant. She had a baby, and she was gone on maternity leave, god bless her. Might have, it was probably more than that it was, two, three, four months later, we were in Phoenix, Arizona. And, she's going to kill me for telling this story, but I won't say what her name is. And she says “David I need to talk to you, can you meet me that this place has a specific time.” I was like “Yeah absolutely.” and I get there and she's bawling. She's, and I was like “Oh my god.” I was like “Okay, you're either quitting or you're pregnant.” She goes “I’m pregnant.”
Elisa Hawkins: Oh, no –
David Lovell: I said, I said to her –
Elisa Hawkins: Which is great, congratulations.
David Lovell: That’s exactly what I. I’m not gonna tell you exactly what I said to her. She'll let you, I'll let her tell you, but I was like, “I’m thrilled for you.”
Elisa Hawkins: Yeah, it’s great.
David Lovell: I gave her a hug, I just said “I love you, you know, it's wonderful.” So to me like, what are we doing, when somebody is scared to talk to their leader about, something that's a very serious thing. You know what I mean? Like, like the business is important but you know what, you're a human –
Elisa Hawkins: You're a human being. Mm hmm.
David Lovell: When we talk about culture, I talked a lot about like my culture. But I want to talk about, the culture that I've been in for 10 years. And it is a culture that puts humans, and people, and family above everything else, from the top to the bottom. As a matter of fact, two years ago, my marketing team did a piece about me similar to this, about building that type of culture. And I talk about it, I'm like “The CEO of our company is an approachable person. The people that work underneath him care more about you, than they do about anything.” And that, that motivates people, Elisa. People that, that's what makes people want to wake up everyday and go “You know what, I don't want to let this company down. I don't want to let this person down, and I don't want to let myself down, and I want to be part of this.”
Elisa Hawkins: And that's culture. That's a great culture. When people can come, and I think if you give them the space to be vulnerable, they are their own worst critics and they get so like, like, so mired down thinking that “Oh my god, I'm going to lose my job.” Or “Oh my god.” And it may not be that anything that the company’s done, or the leader’s done, but people get so like. They hold on so tight, and they get so it's fear based right? And because, hey this is your income, this is your you know livelihood.
David Lovell: Look at you’re example of 2007, I think that was the year that that happened. And I remember what the response was to that. And it was, it was, I was, we were not happy right? It just wasn't, it just wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't cool. Of course we recovered from, and you recovered, thank god, from that. But, but you know. You learned a lot what to do, and a lot what not to do.
Elisa Hawkins: So can I, I’m gonna tell this story. And, and like this was so, when I actually went into, so just to share with it, ‘cause I'm a very open, open book, honest person. I was going through a really troubled marriage, and eventually got a divorce, and, but I had left the company we were with, and I was with another company. And I needed to go file for my divorce. And I needed to leave, I made sure to do it like on, end of day Friday. But I had to get there, I had to you know, be gone from work early, ‘cause I didn't, need to, I need to do it when the courts were open, right? Where I could go file. Do you know what my leader said to me, when I asked her to take that afternoon off, because I needed to actually go file for divorce?
David Lovell: Can I guess?
Elisa Hawkins: Go ahead, I'm going to let you guess.
David Lovell: We have a number to make?
Elisa Hawkins: Yup. She said “If you, if you close two deals.” And that was, that, that is exactly why I wanted to be a different kind of leader. Because that is, you know, you and I've talked about this, we had very specific why’s for why we got into leadership, and they're very similar.
David Lovell: We, I have a very similar story. My best friend’s mother died this is 2005, probably, and I wanted to go to her funeral, and it was in another town. And I said hey “I need to take the day off to go to my best friend's funeral.” And I was told point blank “We have a number to make.” And I, I have carried that, and I, I mean, and the guilt that I had about that, one of the best friends ever had in my life, is, that's not, that's not right. It's not cool.
Elisa Hawkins: No, it's not. And that, that is what I think is so important about not building that culture. Because, yes we have a number to hit, but we also, human beings are at the front, and the center, and at the end of a revenue organization. That, the humans are the ones that are, are responsible for building and creating, and creating the revenue. And humans are also the ones responsible for buying from us. –
David Lovell: Yeah
Elisa Hawkins: – And so, from every aspect it is a human's, even in the tech age that we live in, it is still a very human centered, business is human centered, revenue’s human centered, and we have to recognize that.
David Lovell: You know what, I think it’s becoming more of common place, to to lead like that. Than it was, you and I have been in this, this run for, a very long time. So we got to see, yeah, so you guys think the people that were, were our leaders back then, and they were, they they came up in like, the 70s and 80s. And which was a completely different, society. And so, so the behavior, and the mannerisms were totally different. And what was acceptable was different, than it is now. It's not acceptable to, to tell, you can't go file for divorce because of blah blah blah. It's not acceptable to say “You can't go to a funeral because blah blah.” But like, it's not acceptable.
Elisa Hawkins: No. It’s not acceptable.
David Lovell: It’s not acceptable.
Elisa Hawkins: – And I am grateful for that, but I have I have been coaching leaders recently, where some of that culture, is there still. And, and I really want to impart, if there any CEOs or companies listening to this, like, make sure your culture is not that. So let's talk about recognition. Because I, I think that that's a big part as well, of like, talk to me about what is, what makes recognition meaningful, not performative?
David Lovell: I’m a ham, at this topic, because I go overboard with recognizing people, almost too, as part of my over-optimism, that I've been told that I possess, right? We communicate mostly on slack here at Simpli.fi, and we do a really good job of recognizing wins, and teamwork, and things like that, cross departmentally, you know? In all aspects of the company. Look, everybody likes a pat on the back, everybody likes to have some form of recognition. And I, I also think that you know when you're communicating with people, you got to tell them, the reinforcement needs to come on a consistent basis of “Hey, you know what? You're doing a good job. You are doing a good job.” And I know I like to be told that, doesn't need to be every day, but I definitely, when I talk to my people, and either, and even my peers, and other sales people from different parts of the company. “Hey you guys are killing it, you're doing a great job.” An example would be Catherine is on, from Simpli.fi is a fly on the wall in this call, but her, she works for the marketing team, and I got to tell ya, they're killing it. They are killing it. And I had a call with them this morning about, you know, some of the marketing things that they're doing with, our inbound lead sources, and I'm, like I said, I believe that we're at the pinnacle of this right now. And I share that information with them. And it's really rah rah, and some people could think it's cheesy and all that stuff. But I'm like, I'm just telling you the truth of how I feel. And people that work their butts off, to achieve a really difficult goal, that in a lot of cases might not even be achievable, they need to hear that.
Elisa Hawkins: Yeah, absolutely. And I love that you said that, because actually, my most recent episode of my podcast is out, and I was, and it was about collaboration between marketing and sales. And, this was a former counterpart of mine, and, how we were able to create. And he mentioned that it, because of, we both recognized each other's teams for the work, and the job that they did. ‘Cause, it's not just about us recognizing our own team, and the phenomenal job they're doing, it's about recognizing other teams within our organization, for the jobs that they're doing. Because everybody's working so hard, and they may have different priorities, and different goals. But everybody's mission is the same, drive the organization and drive the business forward, right? And so, I think that, I love that you said that, because that conversation we had, about that, because I think that's how you build, not only a good team culture but a good organizational culture, and collaborative environment. When you are, when you are recognizing each other for the things that they've been doing. Yeah I love that. I love that you said that.
David Lovell: You know. You know, honestly. On the, this reminds me, on the flip side, it’s also owning your mistakes. And its own, you know, owning when you do something wrong, or when you lose a big deal, and you own it instead of making excuses, you know? Just own it. Even if it's not your, even if it's not 100% your fault, if you own it, it will, it will generate respect from your peers, and people that are reporting to you. ‘Cause they can be like “Wow you know, he's, he or she's not afraid to own the problem, or own the mistakes.” And say “Hey you know what, I screwed up. I'm not perfect either.”
Elisa Hawkins: It’s so true. You know, a CEO that I used to work with, had a great line. She said “We don't lose, we learn.” Because failures happen, everybody fails. What you should take away from it, after you get off the, you know, get through the pain of what, of what happened, where you screwed up or where you lost, is learn from it. And then use that data to move, and that knowledge, to move forward so you don't make that same mistake again. Or you know what not to do, in something.
David Lovell: It’s a trial by fire, right? I want to talk about one more example. The same person that I was talking about before, about the the pregnancy thing. She became a, she worked her, she started here as a salesperson, and I could tell like, immediately, there was a lot of talent there. But that talent was like, not honed and, not polished, completely. Within a year, you know, that person was a sponge. And that person was promoted. This, this young woman was promoted. And when she got into management, I called her my number two. She would ask me a lot of questions “How does this, how do we do this? How do we do that?” And I would say to her “You know what? I know the answer to this, but what I want you to do is, I want you to figure it out.” And I know that's not, that can be a pain in the butt, right? But I'm, I think the moral of the story here is, that by, by making people solve problems that could be complex, on their own, they're learning. Like you said,--
Elisa Hawkins: They’re learning. They’re developing, yeah.
David Lovell: – that person developed into, someone that I valued. And still do, although we don't work together directly anymore. I valued her immensely. And, she brought out the best in me, and I could look at the, look at it now, in hindsight, it's been 7 years, and just with such a sense of pride. And I tell her all the time, how proud I am. And I'm sure she probably rolls her eyes. She's going to roll her eyes when she hears this, but it's just the truth. And, I think development is another, really important part of being a good leader, like, you have to understand how to develop people. And if you can't develop them, then they're just going to be another, fly-by-night sales guy.
Elisa Hawkins: Yeah. And I think it’s the most important part of leadership, is developing people. And I want to pull a thread on that story that you just told, David. Because, you know, one of the biggest one, my mission like, last January, I made a mission statement for myself. My mission statement is, I wanted to dedicate the rest of my career, and the rest of my life really, to elevating and preparing the next generation of women in leadership. Because leadership, women in leadership in this country has dropped significantly. And, that's just broad leadership, when you get into the c-suite, it is, and especially in tech, it is in single digits. And so, I am on a mission, to change that in my own little small way, I can't change that holistically. But, one of the biggest things that we need is we need more men like you, not only developing, but sponsoring. So because, you're going to be in rooms that they're not in, but she's not in, and being able to sponsor them in their career journey. Whether it be, whether it be through promotion or something else. But sponsoring them in that. Talk to us about your journey, they, like, what you do to sponsor women and also, and elevate women into leadership. And why that's important to you?
David Lovell: This is a subject, that you know, is near and dear to me. The most influential people in my entire life were my mom, who I was raised by a single mother, my grandmother, and my sister. And actually my, some of my female cousins, as well. So, I was like, I was like, the only boy, or young man, in the whole group. So, I have a, I have a, a real desire to address this issue and, and this topic, okay? You know, I'm always going to hire the best person for the job. But I also, you know, you, people in leadership need to be conscious of, the challenges for a lot of women in, in this business, or in business in general. I've been married to the same woman for 26 years, and I've seen it, I've seen it directly affect her, and, and I've heard from her a lot about this subject. So you know, for me personally, in my journey, I just spoke about, my number two that I call, well I used to call her that. But I think that you just, you have to acknowledge talent. And even if it's, in its most basic form. An example of that would be, for me. Another, another story is, I was actually in Mobile, Alabama.--
Elisa Hawkins: Oh! My home town.
David Lovell: – Yes, this is 2017, I had just, kind of, started here at Simpli.fi and I was a sales director. And we used to do quarterly business reviews. Well there was an agency there. And my CS person, who I had worked with, not real closely, but I had worked with on and off, made the trip to do the quarterly business review with me. She owned the room. She was a low level CS person, she owned it. I will never forget this as long as I live. We walked outside, onto the street, right by the Battle House Hotel, and I said to her I said “You are amazing.” I said “How many times have you done this before?” ‘Cause she was probably 25, and she looks at me she goes “David, that's the first time I've ever done that.” And I said “You're coming to work for me.” And, and she took, it took a path for her to get to where she got. But this person went from the lowest level in client services, to a senior sales director position within, I would probably, 3 years. And I brought her into my team at an entry level, as a strategic planning manager, promoted her to sales, and the funniest part about it, when she got into sales. She all the sudden like, freaked out. And forgot how to, how to talk about our product. And I would just say to her, I said “You know more about this, than anybody else in this company. Just do what you've always been doing. All this is, is a conversation. Just tell people what we do, and why we're different, and how we're going to help ‘em.” She applied that, and she skyrocketed, and she made a ton of money. And she's another one of the people that I look at, and go “Man, I’m so proud of her.” She doesn't work here anymore, but I still keep up with her. And I used to tell her “The most pride I'm ever going to have is what I'm looking at you, when I'm probably retired and you're a CRO or a CEO somewhere.” And I know. Yeah, it's a sense of like, pride. And like, just it's, it's an overwhelming experience.
Elisa Hawkins: That’s amazing. It's awesome, I love that story –
David Lovell: Did that answer your question?
Elisa Hawkins: – Wait. Look, we need more more men advocating and sponsoring women into leadership. Because I think it, I think it's also too, that sometimes we, we can get, and, and it's not just men that can get in this way. We look at promoting leaders that look, that look and feel like us. Like what would we do and, and I think that that's the wrong way to look at it. Because everybody is going to have, like, their own skill set, their own strengths. And the fact that you looked at her, and was like “Okay, you're coming on my team, because you own that room, and I know what you can do.” And then you, you help develop and mentor her, but not only that you sponsored her.
David Lovell: My fear is this, like, if I wouldn't have, I think if I wouldn’t have noticed that, where would she be?
Elisa Hawkins: Right, right.
David Lovell: Like, would she still be in some, like, crappy desk job somewhere, that she didn't want to do? But instead she skyrocketed.
Elisa Hawkins: Yeah and, and she also accepted the challenge. Because like you know you have to –
David Lovell: And owned it.
Elisa Hawkins: – And owned it. All right, we're wrapping up time so I am going to have just I'm going to limit it to just a few rapid fire questions, one meeting every team should have?
David Lovell: My favorite meeting is the off-site lunch and learn, where we get together for a day and, go through the road map and, then go enjoy each other. That's my favorite meeting.
Elisa Hawkins: One meeting every team should eliminate?
David Lovell: I’m gonna get killed for sayin’ this. Meetings about, about processes that we've talked about a million times, or what I call the “Meeting about having another meeting.”
Elisa Hawkins: Oh my god, I hate those. You know what I'm going to say, you know what I'm going to say? David, the, the pipeline meeting that is just a regurgitation of what's in Salesforce or whatever your CRM is. If a pipeline meeting is actually not driving strategy and not helping your sales team to drive, drive deals close? The you should not be having them.
David Lovell: Yeah, yeah I know exactly what you're talking about. Yup.
Elisa Hawkins: And then, a team ritual. We’ll end with this, but a team ritual that you love?
David Lovell: A team ritual that I love is, actually the Monday morning meeting.
Elisa Hawkins: Why, is that?
David Lovell: I love it. I just do, I don't know. We get together and we have like, a lot of open discussion. And that's where you know, you call it riffing. The team just goes and they, and they help each other and they talk about the problems that they're dealing with, so I, I love that meeting. And it also makes me feel like I'm accomplishing something.
Elisa Hawkins: I love that, that’s amazing. David, thank you so much. This has been so amazing. I feel like, you and I can pretty much talk for another hour or two about all of this –
David Lovell: Yeah. You got any wine, or beer or anything?
Elisa Hawkins: Oh my god, I got plenty of wine, right over there. But, you know, you know how I roll.
David Lovell: Oh, I know how you roll.
Elisa Hawkins: David, thank you so much. I cannot thank you enough. And with that we will wrap this up. Thank you so much everybody for listening.
Wasn’t that a phenomenal episode? I so appreciate David coming on and joining me for this phenomenal conversation. As David mentioned, he leads a team at Simpli.fi. Simpli.fi is the real-world media platform, built for the age of immediacy. By unifying digital behavior and real-world movement to a single, actionable signal, Simpli.fi enables over 2000 different agencies, advertisers, and media groups to target, optimise, and measure campaigns precisely where consumer decisions happen. To learn more visit Simpli.fi. Simpli.fi.
And, if you are ready to lead, at the next level. Her Revenue offers leadership accelerators, workshops, and one-on-one coaching for revenue leaders by me, Elisa, at Her Revenue. Learn more at herrevenue.com see ya next time.
Thanks for spending this time with me today on the Real Work of Leadership. If this episode gave you something to think about, or better yet, something to act on, please take a minute to rate and review the show at ratethispodcast.com/realwork and if you would like to learn more about working with me, for my advisory services, our leadership accelerators, and my one-on-one coaching, please visit herrevenue.com until then I'll see you next time.
